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Victory was Michael's biggest mistake

If Michael was more involved in the final product that became Victory, we wouldn't be saying it was a mistake.... Pepsi wasn't a mistake; it was a great platform to advertise himself. Working on the commercial that he was a regrettable decision that he could not have prepared for.
 
I din’t like the trend of the government playing big momma to us.

If I wanna eat sugar fat food and alcohol then let me. If I don’t wanna become 85 to 110 years then let me die at a normal age (between 70 and 85).

What’s the idea anyway? The health bill goes down? Forget it the population keeps growing and when they grow older the pensions keep rising and they can hardly pay them as we speak.

And excuse me now I’m going to eat a bag of chips
 
filmandmusic said:
I din’t like the trend of the government playing big momma to us.

If I wanna eat sugar fat food and alcohol then let me. If I don’t wanna become 85 to 110 years then let me die at a normal age (between 70 and 85).

What’s the idea anyway? The health bill goes down? Forget it the population keeps growing and when they grow older the pensions keep rising and they can hardly pay them as we speak.

And excuse me now I’m going to eat a bag of chips
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Haha so true!! I agree.

I love drinking soda, Pepsi , coke it doesn't matter it takes good and I'll enjoy it!
 
100% one of his worst business decisions. Minus Torture and State Of Shock, the Victory album is one of their worst albums.....2nd to 2300 Jackson Street IMO. Michael had a gut feeling about the whole thing and the tour, he should have stuck to his guns. The brothers getting their mother to talk him into doing it was as low as you can go. They had no balls, and only were looking out for their wallets. They actually believed they would be going with him on the Bad tour, only to find out that wasn't the case. They didn't care for him, just $$$$.

Lord knows if he would have said no and stuck to it, how the rest of the 80's on would have been. My guess...had he done that, the commercials never take place, thus he doesn't suffer 3rd degree burns, thus doesn't turn into a prescription drug addict. More then likely, he'd probably still be alive today.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
His biggest mistake ever was to settle with Chandler in 93 - it changed everything
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The mistake was having the sleepovers in the first place. It doesn't matter if he didn't do anything or slept on the floor, it's not a good look to the general public. Without that there couldn't have been any accusations. Bussing children to Neverland to get on the rides & look at the animals is one thing, sleeping in a room with children that wasn't his relatives is another. The 2nd mistake was agreeing to talk with Bashir. That really was the end. I had never heard of him. Mike could have gone on BET and did an interview with Donnie Simpson instead.

The Jackson family stuff is pretty minor in the big picture. They're like any other family. Maybe the folks on this site have a Leave It To Beaver type family, but many families are not like that. They're more like the families on a soap opera, lol. Some families have gotten into fistfights at funerals because they're arguing about who gets what, siblings or cousins not getting along, etc. On the news all the time, there's stories about children killing their parents or beating their grandmother, parents starving their children or locking them in a room. There's the old joke about parents-in-law not liking the spouse their son/daughter chose. There's some parents who disown their children because they're homosexual or don't have the same political ideas or religion.

Also Mike talking about having a "normal childhood". Well in Gary Indiana, the Jackson family lived in a gang neighborhood, some kids there belonged to one. Who knows if some of the siblings would have made it to adulthood if they never became performers and remained there. Even today, Gary is considered a high crime city and it has a lot of abandoned buildings/homes. It's no wonder Joe wanted to get his family away from there. Or even having his sons do things move bricks around to avoid having them in the streets.
 
Victory Tour was his best move :

- Thriller Tour? sing what? 5 or 6 hits of his? He hadn't enough catalogue to score at that time, even during Bad Tour he performed 2 of The Jacksons songs to fullfil his playlist

- He had no choice but bring his brother under Victory Banner, so Thriller would be treasured...

- No way he would have brougt his brothers to a Thriller Tour to sing Jacksons songs, Thriller means Michael Jackson himself as the coming King of Pop, no way he would have messed things up back then (see Motown 25 Billie Jean performance : brothers not allowed on stage)

- Reminder : Victory Tour finally started the Michael Jackson Mania as only seen before with Elvis and The Beatles. Even if the shows were "weak" artistically all americans (familly, teens, elderies) wanted to see MJ

There are great mistakes later on, especially between Thriller era and Bad era, but hey nobody's perfect
 
DuranDuran said:
The mistake was having the sleepovers in the first place. It doesn't matter if he didn't do anything or slept on the floor, it's not a good look to the general public. Without that there couldn't have been any accusations. Bussing children to Neverland to get on the rides & look at the animals is one thing, sleeping in a room with children that wasn't his relatives is another. The 2nd mistake was agreeing to talk with Bashir. That really was the end. I had never heard of him. Mike could have gone on BET and did an interview with Donnie Simpson instead.

The Jackson family stuff is pretty minor in the big picture. They're like any other family. Maybe the folks on this site have a Leave It To Beaver type family, but many families are not like that. They're more like the families on a soap opera, lol. Some families have gotten into fistfights at funerals because they're arguing about who gets what, siblings or cousins not getting along, etc. On the news all the time, there's stories about children killing their parents or beating their grandmother, parents starving their children or locking them in a room. There's the old joke about parents-in-law not liking the spouse their son/daughter chose. There's some parents who disown their children because they're homosexual or don't have the same political ideas or religion.

Also Mike talking about having a "normal childhood". Well in Gary Indiana, the Jackson family lived in a gang neighborhood, some kids there belonged to one. Who knows if some of the siblings would have made it to adulthood if they never became performers and remained there. Even today, Gary is considered a high crime city and it has a lot of abandoned buildings/homes. It's no wonder Joe wanted to get his family away from there. Or even having his sons do things move bricks around to avoid having them in the streets.
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This is all pretty true actually. Victory isn't a real "mistake", just a suboptimal gamble. But it was a bad experience all round.

As far as the sleepovers go, I agree in sentiment and yet I find it ironic how Elvis had sleepovers with minors of the opposite sex and that somehow attracted less flames for it's smoke. I wonder why...
 
Michael saved his hits and didn't give them away for Victory. That's why there was no Chicago 1945 on the album. That's how I see it.
 
The sleepover thing looks bad on the surface but once you know the context you realise it isn't as sinister as people make it out to be. Remember that Michael's bedroom was a 2 story duplex and kids, adults and entire families were free to go in there. Michael didn't have random kids numbers on speed dial that he'd call up to invite for sleepovers like the media loves to potray.

When people think of a bedroom they think of something small and intimite but Michael allowing people into his bedroom is the equivalent of us allowing people into our houses.
 
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Salomons said:
Victory Tour was his best move :

- Thriller Tour? sing what? 5 or 6 hits of his? He hadn't enough catalogue to score at that time, even during Bad Tour he performed 2 of The Jacksons songs to fullfil his playlist
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This short sighted view many fans have is something I’ll never understand. In normal circumstances artists just perform their new album. Performing all of the Thriller songs with some added hits by Off The Wall as an encore would have been a tremendous concert.

Besides that, he had at least 20 released adult solo songs to pick from which is more than enough to fill a show, he could have performed unreleased tracks as well, some artists do that.
Radiohead for example played “true love waits“ for many years live while it never appeared on any studio album (until their last album released some years ago).

And if in some universe that is still not enough he had hundreds and hundreds of Motown songs and covers to pick from.
You must be aware that the Jackson 5 toured in 1970 on the basis of just one album…
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
This is all pretty true actually. Victory isn't a real "mistake", just a suboptimal gamble. But it was a bad experience all round.

As far as the sleepovers go, I agree in sentiment and yet I find it ironic how Elvis had sleepovers with minors of the opposite sex and that somehow attracted less flames for it's smoke. I wonder why...
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The difference is that in Elvis' day, there wasn't cable television or the internet. In the USA there were 3 major networks, plus PBS (public television) & a few local channels on UHF. TV channels also went off at night, they didn't need to fill up 24 hours with something. The network news was more serious, they didn't really do celebrity gossip then. If the network news netioned a famous person it was more likely to be somebody like John Wayne, not a rock singer or band. That's partly why magazines like Rolling Stone & Creem were started, because the mainstream media of the time gave that little attention. Those magazines were for the younger audience, Life & Time & even the tabloid National Inquirer were for their parents/grandparents.

Anyway, Jerry Lee Lewis mainstream career died when he married his teen cousin in the 1950s and he's the same color as Elvis. Muhammad Ali got a lot of bad press when he refused to go to Vietnam in the 1960s and he had his boxing titles & license stripped and he couldn't fight for a few years. He could have went to prison for that.
 
filmandmusic said:
This short sighted view many fans have is something I’ll never understand. In normal circumstances artists just perform their new album. Performing all of the Thriller songs with some added hits by Off The Wall as an encore would have been a tremendous concert.

Besides that, he had at least 20 released adult solo songs to pick from which is more than enough to fill a show, he could have performed unreleased tracks as well, some artists do that.
Radiohead for example played “true love waits“ for many years live while it never appeared on any studio album (until their last album released some years ago).

And if in some universe that is still not enough he had hundreds and hundreds of Motown songs and covers to pick from.
You must be aware that the Jackson 5 toured in 1970 on the basis of just one album…
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I respectfully disagree, back in the 80's, and I still remember vividly, Michael Jackson, Prince, Pink Floyd, U2, Madonna, no huge act or artists performed a full album on stage, only singles realeased that hit the Hot 100 or European Charts,

Michael could've performed Beat it, Billie Jean, Human Nature, Don't Stop, Rock with U, She's out of my life (and hypothetically OTW & Thriller) and that's it! Motown solo albums were not allowed to be performed (except samples and medley) So yeah Victory was a great choice bringing The Jacksons songs + MJ songs would make a FULL show, it's obvious..

Even Top 10 singles were never performed by MJ : PYT, Leave me Alone, Liberian Girl, etc.. it's hard to meet with a live show quality for some tracks
 
analogue said:
The sleepover thing looks bad on the surface but once you know the context you realise it isn't as sinister as people make it out to be. Remember that Michael's bedroom was a 2 story duplex and kids, adults and entire families were free to go in there. Michael didn't have random kids numbers on speed dial that he'd call up to invite for sleepovers like the media loves to potray.

When people think of a bedroom they think of something small and intimite but Michael allowing people into his bedroom is the equivalent of us allowing people into our houses.
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Michael Jackson allowed certain children (such as, Jordan Chandler) to sleep with him in the same bed also in other locations, where beds are small and intimate.

For example, Jordan Chandler and Michael Jackson slept together in the same hotel bed in Las Vegas.

Jordan Chandler and Michael Jackson also slept together in the same hotel bed in Monaco.

It has also been written that the singer slept more than 30 consecutive nights in the same bed with Jordan Chandler at the boy's house.
DuranDuran said:
The mistake was having the sleepovers in the first place. It doesn't matter if he didn't do anything or slept on the floor, it's not a good look to the general public. Without that there couldn't have been any accusations. Bussing children to Neverland to get on the rides & look at the animals is one thing, sleeping in a room with children that wasn't his relatives is another. The 2nd mistake was agreeing to talk with Bashir. That really was the end. I had never heard of him. Mike could have gone on BET and did an interview with Donnie Simpson instead.

The Jackson family stuff is pretty minor in the big picture. They're like any other family. Maybe the folks on this site have a Leave It To Beaver type family, but many families are not like that. They're more like the families on a soap opera, lol. Some families have gotten into fistfights at funerals because they're arguing about who gets what, siblings or cousins not getting along, etc. On the news all the time, there's stories about children killing their parents or beating their grandmother, parents starving their children or locking them in a room. There's the old joke about parents-in-law not liking the spouse their son/daughter chose. There's some parents who disown their children because they're homosexual or don't have the same political ideas or religion.

Also Mike talking about having a "normal childhood". Well in Gary Indiana, the Jackson family lived in a gang neighborhood, some kids there belonged to one. Who knows if some of the siblings would have made it to adulthood if they never became performers and remained there. Even today, Gary is considered a high crime city and it has a lot of abandoned buildings/homes. It's no wonder Joe wanted to get his family away from there. Or even having his sons do things move bricks around to avoid having them in the streets.
Click to expand...
Uri Geller introduced Michael Jackson to Martin Bashir.

When Michael Jackson met and spoke with Martin Bashir, the singer felt safe with this journalist, and also safe that he would portray him in the right light, as revealed by Taj Jackson.
 
Canceling Thriller tour wasn't his biggest mistake, his miggest mistake was cancelling Invincible World Tour....A lot of songs from this album deserved to be performed live.... But now, they become Invisible because of lack of promotion
michael-michael-jackson.gif
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson allowed certain children (such as, Jordan Chandler) to sleep with him in the same bed also in other locations, where beds are small and intimate.

For example, Jordan Chandler and Michael Jackson slept together in the same hotel bed in Las Vegas.

Jordan Chandler and Michael Jackson also slept together in the same hotel bed in Monaco.

It has also been written that the singer slept more than 30 consecutive nights in the same bed with Jordan Chandler at the boy's house.

Uri Geller introduced Michael Jackson to Martin Bashir.

When Michael Jackson met and spoke with Martin Bashir, the singer felt safe with this journalist, and also safe that he would portray him in the right light, as revealed by Taj Jackson.
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Is that true? That Michael and Jordy slept together in the same hotel bed etc?

As a grown man, I have to disagree with that completely and MJ should have known that it was not normal for an adult to share a small intimate bed with a child friend.

I was scrolling through tiktok this evening and looking at different MJ related content, one of them showed 3 pics of MJ, the caption read what would adult Michael tell young Michael looking back on his life.... the 3rd caption said pull your pants down 😞

Those disgusting 🤮 allegations are a huge part of his image and I hate it.
 
Richard76 said:
Canceling Thriller tour wasn't his biggest mistake, his miggest mistake was cancelling Invincible World Tour....A lot of songs from this album deserved to be performed live.... But now, they become Invisible because of lack of promotion
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Looking at the 30th anniversary shows Michael was in no condition to do a world tour during that time.
 
I wonder if the relationship with his brothers really became that bad, he said he missed them beside him on tour. Maybe his manager convinced him to perform solo because in this interview, although recorded earlier, he is really adament that he doesn't want to tour alone:
 
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