Oprah: Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jackson.

[Michael Jackson enters the living room of his home. They shake hands and Michael kisses Oprah on the cheek.]

Oprah: How nervous are you?

Michael: How what?

Oprah: How nervous are you right now?

Michael: I’m not nervous at all, actually.

Oprah: You really aren’t?

Michael: No, I never get nervous.

Oprah: Not even for your first interview and it’s live around the world? I thought you’d be a little nervous but you’re not and that’s great because if you’re not nervous I won’t be nervous. I just wanted to let the world know that when we agreed to do this interview you said you would be willing to talk to me about everything.

Michael: That’s true.

Oprah: Very true. I was watching you in the background there watching you in the video of the early years. Did that bring back memories for you?

Michael: It made me giggle because I haven’t seen that footage in a long time. Did it bring back memories? Yes, me and my brothers who I love dearly and it’s just a wonderful moment for me.

Oprah: I saw you laugh when you saw yourself singing ‘Baby, Baby, Baby’.

Michael: Yeah, I think James Brown is a genius you know when he’s with the ‘Famous Flames’, unbelievable. I used to watch him on television and I used to get angry at the camera-man because whenever he would really start to dance they would be on a close-up so I couldn’t see his feet. I’d shout “show him show him”, so I could watch and learn.

Oprah: So he was a big mentor for you?

Michael: Phenomenal, phenomenal.

Oprah: Who else was?

Michael: Jackie Wilson who I adore as an entertainer, and of course music, Motown. The Bee Gees who are brilliant, I just love great music.

Oprah: When I look at those tapes of you, and heaven knows, putting this together I think I’ve seen every piece of video ever done of you, and watching those tapes when, especially in the younger years, you seem to really come alive on stage. Were you as happy off stage as you appear to be on stage?

Michael: Well, on stage for me was home. I was most comfortable on stage but once I got off stage, I was like, very sad.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And sad from the beginning, sad since it first started, sad?

Michael: Lonely, sad, having to face popularity and all that. There were times when I had great times with my brothers, pillow fights and things, but I was, used to always cry from loneliness.

Oprah: Beginning at what age?

Michael: Oh, very little, eight, nine.

Oprah: When you all first became famous?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: So it wasn’t what it appeared to be to the rest of the world, all of us… I remember I was a little black child, wanted to marry Jackie Jackson, your brother, so I mean to all of us we thought this was the most wonderful thing in the world, who wouldn’t have wanted that life?

Michael: It was wonderful, there is a lot of wonderment in being famous. I mean you travel the world, you meet people, you go places, it’s great. But then there’s the other side, which I’m not complaining about. There is lots of rehearsal and you have to put in a lot of your time, give of yourself a lot.

Oprah: Do you feel… I talked with Suzanne de Passe the other day, and Suzanne de Passe worked with you at Motown and really groomed you all and found the outfits for the ‘Ed Sullivan Show’. We talked about your childhood, whether or not it was really lost, was it?

Michael: Well, especially now I come to realize — and then — I would do my schooling which was three hours with a tutor and right after that I would go to the recording studio and record, and I’d record for hours and hours until it’s time to go to sleep. And I remember going to the record studio there was a park across the street and I’d see all the children playing and I would cry because it would make me sad that I would have to work instead.

Oprah: I want to go to this and show some pictures of you as a little boy.

Michael: OK.

Oprah: Suzanne said it was a heavy price. I want to know how big of a price it was, losing your childhood or having this kind of life?

Michael: Well, you don’t get to do things that other children get to do, you know, having friends and slumber parties and buddies. There was none of that for me. I didn’t have any friends when I was little. My brothers were my friends.

Oprah: Was there ever a place where — because you know children — because I remember talking to myself and playing with my dolls — was there… and I think every child needs a place to escape into a child’s world, a child’s imagination, was there ever a time you could do that?

Michael: No. And that is why I think now because I didn’t have it then, I compensate for that. People wonder why I always have children around, because I find the thing that I never had through them, you know Disneyland, amusement parks, arcade games. I adore all that stuff because when I was little it was always work, work, work from one concert to the next, if it wasn’t a concert it was the recording studio, if it wasn’t that it was TV shows or interviews or picture sessions. There was always something to do.

Oprah: Did you feel, Smokey Robinson said this about you, and so have many other people, that you were like an old soul in a little body.

Michael: I remember hearing that all the time when I was little. They used to call me a 45-years-old midget wherever I went, I just used to hear that and wherever I went… just like when some people “When you were little and you started to sing did you know you were that good?” And I say I never thought about it, I just did it and it came out. I never thought about it really.

Oprah: So here you were, Michael Jackson, you all had hits, you all had so many hits, four hits in a row, and you were crying because you couldn’t be like other kids.

Michael: Well, I loved show business and I still love show business, but then there are times you want to play and have some fun and that part did make me sad. I remember one time we were getting ready to go to South America and everything was packed up and in the car ready to go and I hid and I was crying while I was hiding because I really did not want to go. I wanted to play. I did not want to go.

Oprah: Were your brothers jealous of you when you started getting all the attention?

Michael: Not that I know of, no.

Oprah: You never felt a sense of jealousy?

Michael: Oh, let me think — no. No, I think they were always happy for me that I could do certain things, but I’ve never felt jealousy among them.

Oprah: Do you think they are jealous of you now?

Michael: I wouldn’t think so. I don’t think so, no.

Oprah: No. What’s your relationship like with your family? Are you all close still?

Michael: I love my family very much. I wish I could see them a little more often than I do. But we understand because we’re a show business family and we all work. We do have family day when we all get together, we pick a person’s house, it might be Jermaine’s house or Marlon’s house or Tito’s house and everyone will come together in fellowship and love each other and talk and catch up on who’s doing what and…

Oprah: You weren’t all upset about LaToya and LaToya’s book and the things that LaToya has said about the family?

Michael: Well, I haven’t read LaToya’s book. I just know how to love my sister dearly, I love LaToya and I always will and I always see her as the happy, loving LaToya that I remember growing up with. So I couldn’t completely answer on that.

Oprah: Do you feel that some of the things that she’s been saying are true?

Michael: I couldn’t answer Oprah, honestly I haven’t read the book. That’s the honest truth.

Oprah: Well, let’s go back to when you were growing up and feeling all of this, well, I guess it’s a sense of anguish, I guess, so there was no one for you to play with other than your brothers, you never had slumber parties?

Michael: Never.

Oprah: So I’m wondering for you, being this cute little boy who everybody adored and everybody who comes up to you they’re pulling your cheeks and how cute, how adolescence going through that duck stage where everything’s awkward, and I’m wondering when you started to go through adolescence having been this child superstar, was that a particularly difficult time for you?

Michael: Very. Very, very difficult, yes. Because I think every child star suffers through this period because you’re not the cute and charming child that you were. You start to grow, and they want to keep you little forever.

Oprah: Who’s they?

Michael: The public. And um, nature takes its course.

Oprah: It does?

Michael: Yes, and I had pimples so badly it used to make me so shy, I used not to look at myself, I’d hide my face in the dark, I wouldn’t want to look in the mirror and my father teased me and I just hated it and I cried every day.

Oprah: Your father teased you about your pimples?

Michael: Yes and tell me I’m ugly.

Oprah: Your father would say that?

Michael: Yes he would. Sorry Joseph.

Oprah: What’s your relationship like with him?

Michael: I love my father but I don’t know him.

Oprah: Are you angry with him for doing that? I think that’s pretty cruel actually.

Michael: Am I angry with him?

Oprah: Because adolescence is hard enough without a parent telling you that you’re ugly.

Michael: Am I angry with him? Sometimes I do get angry. I don’t know him the way I’d like to know him. My mother’s wonderful. To me she’s perfection. I just wish I could understand my father.

Oprah: And so let’s talk about those teen years. Is that when you started to go inside yourself? Because obviously you haven’t spoken to the world for 14 years. So you went inside, you became a recluse. Was it to protect yourself?

Michael: I felt there wasn’t anything important for me to say and those were very sad, sad years for me.

Oprah: Why so sad? Because on stage you were performing, you were getting your Grammies. Why so sad?

Michael: Oh, there’s a lot of sadness about my past and adolescence, about my father and all of those things.

Oprah: So he would tease you, make fun of you.

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Would he… did he ever beat you?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And why would he beat you?

Michael: He saw me, he wanted me… I guess I don’t know if I was his golden child or whatever it was, some may call it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very strict, very hard, very stern. Just a look would scare you, you know.

Oprah: And were you scared of him?

Michael: Very. Frightened. Like there’s been times when he’d come to see me, I’d get sick, I’d start to regurgitate.

Oprah: As a child or as an adult?

Michael: Both. He’s never heard me say this. I’m sorry, please don’t be mad at me.

Oprah: Well, I mean, I suppose everybody has to take responsibility for what they’ve done in life. And your father is one of those people who also have to take responsibility.

Michael: But I do love him.

Oprah: Yes, I understand this.

Michael: And I am forgiving.

Oprah: But can you really forgive? If you haven’t gotten angry, if you haven’t dealt with how you really feel. I don’t know if you can get from having been abused to forgiveness…

Michael: I do forgive. There’s so much garbage and so much trash that’s written about me it is so untrue, they’re complete lies, and those are some of the things I want to talk about. The press has made up so much… God… awful, horrifying stories it has made me realize the more often you hear a lie, I mean, you begin to believe it.

Oprah: Um, we talked about all of the rumors just before we went to the break and there are so many. First of all, I have been in this house getting prepared for this and I’ve been all over the house upstairs when you weren’t looking, looking for that oxygen chamber and I cannot find an oxygen chamber anywhere in the house.

Michael: That, that story is so crazy, I mean it’s one of those tabloid things, it’s completely made up.

Oprah: Okay, but you are in something there, there’s a picture of you, where did that come from? How did it get started?

Michael: That’s… I did a commercial for Pepsi and I was burned very badly and we settled for one million dollars and I gave all the money… like we built this place called the ‘Michael Jackson Burn Center’ and that’s a piece of technology used for burn victims, right, so I’m looking at the piece of technology and decide to just go inside it and just to hammer around, somebody takes the picture, when they process the picture the person who processes the picture says, “Oh, Michael Jackson”, he made a copy and these pictures went all over the world with this lie attached to it. It’s a complete lie, why do people buy these papers. It'’s not the truth and I’m here to say. You know, do not judge a person, do not pass judgment, unless you have talked to them one on one, I don’t care what the story is, do not judge them because it’s a lie.

Oprah: You’re right, that story, it was just like it had legs.

Michael: It’s crazy! Why would I want to sleep in a chamber? [Laughing]

Oprah: Well, the rumor was that you were sleeping in the chamber because you didn’t want to grow old.

Michael: That’s stupid. That’s stupid. It’s completely made up and I’m embarrassed. I’m willing to forgive the press, or forgive anybody, I was taught to love and forgive, which I do have in my heart, but please don’t believe these crazy, horrifying things.

Oprah: Did you buy the ‘Elephant Man’s’ bones, were you trying to get them for…

Michael: No that’s another stupid story. I love the story of the ‘Elephant Man’, he reminds me of me a lot and I could relate to it, it made me cry because I saw myself in in the story, but no I never asked for the… where am I going to put some bones?

Oprah: I don’t know.

Michael: And why would I want some bones?

Oprah: I don’t know. So where did that come from?

Michael: Someone makes it up and everybody believes it. If you hear a lie often enough, you believe it. 

Oprah: Yes and people make money selling tabloids.

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: All right. Just recently, there was a story and I know one of your attorneys held a news conference, there was a story about you wanting a little white child to play you in a Pepsi commercial.

Michael: That is so stupid. That is the most ridiculous, horrifying story I’ve ever heard. It’s crazy. Why, number one, it’s my face as a child in the commercial, me when I was little, why would I want a white child to play me? I’m a black American, I am proud to be a black American, I am proud of my race. I am proud of who I am. I have a lot of pride and dignity. That’s like you wanting an oriental person to play you as a child. Does that make sense?

Oprah: No.

Michael: So, please people, stop believing these horrifying stories.

Oprah: Okay, then let’s go to the thing that is most discussed about you, that is the color of your skin is most obviously different than when you were younger, and so I think it has caused a great deal of speculation and controversy as to what you have done or are doing, are you bleaching your skin and is your skin lighter because you don’t like being black?

Michael: Number one, as I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching, I have never seen it, I don’t know what it is.

Oprah: Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up always hearing always use bleach and glow, but you have to have about 300,000 gallons.

Michael: Okay, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin, it’s something that I cannot help. Okay. But when people make up stories that I don’t want to be who I am it hurts me.

Oprah: So it is…

Michael: It’s a problem for me that I can’t control, but what about all the millions of people who sit out in the sun, to become darker, to become other than what they are, no one says nothing about that.

Oprah: So when did this start, when did your… when did the color of your skin start to change?

Michael: Oh boy, I don’t… sometime after ‘Thriller’, around ‘Off the Wall’, ‘Thriller’, around sometime then.

Oprah: But what did you think?

Michael: It’s in my family, my father said it’s on his side. I can’t control it, I don’t understand, I mean, it makes me very sad. I don’t want to go into my medical history because that is private, but that’s the situation here.

Oprah: So okay, I just want to get this straight, you are not taking anything to change the color of your skin…

Michael: Oh, God no, we tried to control it and using make-up evens it out because it makes blotches on my skin, I have to even out my skin. But you know what’s funny, why is that so important? That’s not important to me. I’m a great fan of art, I love Michelangelo, if I had the chance to talk to him or read about him I would want to know what inspired him to become who he is, the anatomy of his craftsmanship, not about who he went out with last night… what’s wrong with… I mean that’s what is important to me.

Oprah: How much plastic surgery have you had?

Michael: Very, very little. I mean you can count on my two fingers, I mean let’s say this, if you want to know about those things, all the nosey people in the world, read my book ‘Moonwalk’, it’s in my book. You know, let’s put it this way, if all the people in Hollywood who have had plastic surgery, if they went on vacation, there wouldn’t be a person left in town.

Oprah: Mmm, I think you might be right.

Michael: I think I am right. It would be empty.

Oprah: Did you start having plastic surgery because of those teen years because of not liking the way you looked?

Michael: No, not really. It was only two things. Really, get my book, it’s no big deal.

Oprah: You don’t want to tell me what it is? You had your nose done, obviously.

Michael: Yeah, but so did a lot of people that I know.

Oprah: And so, when you hear all these things about you, and there have been more…

Michael: I’ve never had my cheekbones done, never had my eyes done, never had my lips done and all this stuff. They go too far, but this is stuff that happens every day with other people.

Oprah: Are you pleased now with the way you look?

Michael: I’m never pleased with anything, I’m a perfectionist, it’s part of who I am.

Oprah: And so when you look in the mirror now and so the image that looks back at you are there days when you say I kinda like this or I like the way my hair…

Michael: No, I’m never satisfied with me.

Oprah: … or I’m kinda cute today…

Michael: … [giggles] cute today… no, I’m never pleased with myself. No, I try not to look in the mirror.

Oprah: I have to ask you this, so many mothers in my audience have said to please ask you this question. Why do you always grab your crotch?

Michael: [Giggles] Why do I grab my crotch?

Oprah: You’ve got a thing with your crotch going on there.

Michael: I think it happens subliminally. When you’re dancing, you know you are just interpreting the music and the sounds and the accompaniment if there’s a driving base, if there’s a cello, if there’s a string, you become the emotion of what that sound is, so if I’m doing a movement and I go bam and I grab myself it’s… it’s the music that compels me to do it, it’s not saying that I’m dying to grab down there and it’s not in a great place you don’t think about it, it just happens, sometimes I’ll look back at the footage and I go… and I go “Did I do that?”, so I’m a slave to the rhythm, yeah, okay.

[After a commercial break, some of Michael’s major achievements are shown:]

• # 1 Album of All Time

• # 2 Album of All Time

• Biggest Concert in History

• More Music Awards Than Any Other Artist

• The 80's Most # 1 Hits

• Biggest Endorsements Deal Ever - 15,000,000 dollars

• Billion Dollar Entertainment Contract

• Entertainner of the Decade

Oprah: When you have broken all those records, when you have the number one album ever sold, when you’ve broken every record there is to break, when you become an icon of an industry, is there always the pressure to do something bigger and something better.

Michael: Oh gee, that is something, um, it makes it harder each time to follow up. You try to be as original as you can be without thinking about statistics, just you go from the soul and from the heart.

Oprah: And so when you think of that what do you do, you go, you meditate, you think, well I will now do the Superbowl.

Michael: Nooo, I just create out of my heart, really.

Oprah: Liz Taylor said you were king of pop, rock and soul. Where did this whole notion that you proclaimed yourself king of pop come from?

Michael: Well, I didn’t proclaim myself to be anything. I’m happy to be alive, I’m happy to be who I am, king of pop was first said by Elizabeth Taylor on one of the award shows.

Oprah: And that’s where this all started?

Michael: Yes, and the fans… all the stadiums that we played at they’d bring banners saying king of pop and jackets that say king of pop and T-shirts that say king of pop and they chanted outside my hotel, so it just became something that just happened all over the world.

Oprah: Do you go out, do you date?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Who do you date?

Michael: Well, right now it’s Brooke Shields. Well, we try not to be everywhere, go everywhere, it’s mostly at home, she’ll come over, I’ll go to her house, because I don’t like going out in public.

Oprah: Have you ever been in love?

Michael: Yeah.

Oprah: With Brooke Shields?

Michael: Yes, and another girl.

Oprah: And another girl? Let me ask you this, and it’s embarrassing for me to ask you this, but I’m gonna ask you anyway, are you a virgin?

Michael: Uhhhhh, how could you ask that question?

Oprah: I just want to know.

Michael: I’m a gentleman.

Oprah: You’re a gentleman?

Michael: I’m a gentleman.

Oprah: I would interpret that to mean that you believe that a lady is a lady and therefore…

Michael: That’s something that’s private, I mean, it shouldn’t be spoken about openly. … You can call me old fashioned if you want, but, you know I mean that’s very personal.

Oprah: So, you’re not going to answer it?

Michael: I’m embarrassed.

Oprah: Well, we would like to know whether or not there is a possibility that you are going to marry one day and have children?

Michael: I would feel my life is incomplete if I do not ’cause I adore the family life, I adore children and I adore that whole thing. And I would love to, that’s one of my dreams, but I couldn’t right now because I am married, I’m married to my music and there has to be that closeness in order to do the kind of work that I want to do and…

Oprah: What kind of woman makes you — in the video we’re going to see later, we premiere the world video, there’s a line where you talk about being quenched, so what kind of person does that for you?

Michael: [Sings] Quench my desire… Well Brooke, I’ve always liked her and when I was little I used to stay with Diana Ross, me and my brother stayed with her for years and I never said, but I always had a crush on her.

Oprah: You did?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: I heard too, this was another one of those rumors, that you had proposed to Elizabeth Taylor at some point.

Michael: Elizabeth Taylor is gorgeous, beautiful, and she still is today, I’m crazy about her.

Oprah: Yeah, but did you propose to her?

Michael: I would like to have.Oprah: Well, Elizabeth Taylor is here. Liz? Can we bring Liz out now? Liz had said she wanted to be here to hold your hand through this. You don’t look like you need your hand held. Elizabeth Taylor!

Michael: Hi, Elizabeth.

Oprah: Hi.

Elizabeth: Hi.

Oprah: Have a seat.

Elizabeth: Thank you.

Oprah: Did Michael ever propose to you?

Elizabeth: No! And I never proposed to him.

Oprah: Never did! What do you think is most misunderstood about Michael Jackson?

Elizabeth: All the things you mentioned. He is the least weird man I have ever known. He is highly intelligent, true, intuitive, understanding, sympathetic, generous almost to a fault, of himself.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Elizabeth: Uh, and he just, if, if he has any eccentricities, it’s that he is like larger than life and some people just cannot accept that or face it or understand it. His talent on stage, why I call him the king of pop, rock, soul, music, entertainment, whatever…

Oprah: Yes.

Elizabeth: … there’s nobody that can come near him. Nobody can dance like that, write the lyrics like that, the music, uh, cause the kind of excitement that he does.

Oprah: And why do you think you all are such good friends? What has brought about this kind of bond? Because people try to make this weird.

Elizabeth: Well, it’s not. I mean, our childhoods are very similar, and we have that from the very beginning in common. Um, I was a child star at nine, had an abusive father, um, and that kind of brought us close together in the very beginning.

Oprah: And what is it, I am going to ask Michael this question later on, but, what is it you most want the world to know about him?

Elizabeth: What a wonderful, giving, caring, generous man he is and how good he is.

Oprah: And he’s funny, too.

Elizabeth: Oh, he’s wildly funny.

Oprah: He can crack some jokes, I tell you.

Elizabeth: Yes, but he is a good man.

Oprah: When we come back… Thank you for joining us too…

Elizabeth: That’s fine.

Oprah: … cause I know you did not want to be on camera at first, but thank you. Coming up next, Michael is going to give us not only a tour of his incredible amusement park and movie theater, but also a very special dance performance. For all of you who say he is faking the ‘Moonwalk’ with mirrors, we’ve got some proof coming up in a minute.

[Cut to dance clips for intermission]

Announcer: Live from Santa Ynez, California. Michael Jackson talks to Oprah.

Oprah: Now this is what’s shocking to me, that you even drive. What we’re doing, everybody, is that we are coming from Michael’s house down to this amazing amusement park, which is, oh, about several hundred yards from the house. And this is, it’s incredible.

Michael: Thank you.

Oprah: And I want to know whether or not you did this for yourself or did you do it for all the children that you entertain here?

Michael: For myself and the children. Every three weeks we — terminally ill children that come to… uh…

Oprah: To the house?

Michael: Yes, yes.

Oprah: ‘Make a Wish–Foundation’, ‘Dream Street’, ‘Starlight’, yes?

Michael: Every three weeks… and these are sick children, children with cancer. And I entertain them.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And they come here to enjoy themselves.

Oprah: This is unbelievable. What I have to say is, these are, as I was talking to some kids that were here, these are not just grandma rides here. These are some major rides.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: I mean the ‘Sea Dragon’, the ‘Ferris Wheel’, and there’s that ‘Zipper’ over there.

Michael: The ‘Wipeout’.

Oprah: Yeah, the ‘Wipeout’, and there are ‘Bumper Cars’ here, it’s really…

Michael: Thank you. Well, it brings out the child that lives in everybody. I love rides and things like that and I share it with the children.

Oprah: Were you able to do that when you were a kid?

Michael: Not really. Sometimes, sometimes, but not often enough.

Oprah: But now you can anytime.

Michael: Every day. It’s right in my back yard.

Oprah: How often do you actually come out here and do this?

Michael: Whenever I’m here I come out and I go on the rides.

Oprah: Well, is this a part of you, what we were talking about earlier, the pain of growing up and not being able to experience all the things that kids normally experience and so now you are fulfilling all those fantasies.

Michael: To compensate, yes.

Oprah: Really.

Michael: Yes, it is very true.

Oprah: Do you think you can ever really recapture it though? Does it feel the same? I mean, I don’t know.

Michael: [laughs] It’s more fun.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: I wouldn’t change the past if I could. I’m enjoying myself.

Oprah: And here we are inside the theater. I had once too many sugar babies at the candy counter.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: But the candy is here for all the kids. Pinocchio is here, ET is here. Did you… what’s fascinating to me about you is that obviously you have this childlike aura about you and I see children with you and they play with you like you are one of them. But, a child did not do this.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: A child did not put this together. This is really magnificent.

Michael: Well, thank you. I… I love to do things for children and I try to imitate Jesus… and I am not saying I am Jesus, I’m not saying that.

Oprah: Yes, we’re clear on that.

Michael: Right, I’m trying to imitate Jesus in the fact that he said to be like children, to love children, to be as pure as children, and to make yourself as innocent and to see the world through eyes of wonderment and the whole magical quality of it all and I love that. And we’ll have like a hundred bald headed children, they all have cancer, and they’re all running around.

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: And they are enjoying themselves and it makes me cry happy tears that I was able to do this for them, you know. 

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: Makes me so pleased inside.

Oprah: Well, when I came here to, um, about a month ago to shoot a commercial with you for promoting tonight’s event, one of the things that really impressed me the most, I hope you guys are getting shots of this. I don’t know how you are, if all the cameras are on us, but, oh, we got other cameras… is that there are, built inside the walls here… beds… beds for some of those sick children who come. And what I realized when I saw this is that you have to be a person who really cares about children to build it into your architecture.

Michael: Yes, yes. We have children that come who are… who intravenously… they are very sick, bedridden…

Oprah: They can’t sit up.

Michael: Right. They can’t sit up and these beds, they are hospital beds, you push a button, you go up or you go down and they are able to watch. We have a magic show, we show the current films, there’s cartoons, anything you know, anything so they can escape to that world of magic that they don’t have a chance to experience, the world I was deprived of when I was little.

Oprah: Now let me ask you this. You know I believe everything happens in people’s lives for a reason. Do you think that had you not missed a lot of, uh, the life and fun and fantasy of childhood that you would be so in touch with children today. Would you relate to them as you do?

Michael: I probably would, but not as much. That’s why I wouldn’t change a thing…

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Because I am happy with the way things are and my caring for young people and everything.

Oprah: Are you really happy now, because you seemed so sad for a long time.

Michael: [laughs] I was sad for years and years and years. But I’m happy, I’m getting there. Yes, I’m very happy.

Oprah: And what has made you happier.

Michael: Being able to give back, you know, and to help other people.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: ‘Heal the World-Foundation’ which I’ve formed which helps children in healing in the world. We’re doing ‘Heal L.A.’, which is uh, we have three primary goals in mind: Immunization of children, mentoring — a big sister, big brother program, and education in drug abuse. And Jimmy Carter has teamed up with us to do ‘Heal Atlanta’ and we’re going to go from state to state healing — you know we’ve gone to Sarajevo, we’ve done lots of places.

Oprah: I know, I know, we have photographs of you from all over the world where you are with all these children. One of the things I was saying before we went to the last break, before the alarm went off in the house and all that…

Michael: Yeah…

Oprah: … is that, uh, we were talking about the rumors. One of the strangest ones I heard was that when you’re ‘Moonwalking’, you’re faking it, that you have some mirrors in your socks someplace.

Michael: Oh, boy!

Oprah: And it’s not really real.

Michael: No, that’s not true.

Oprah: How did you, first of all, you know we’ve spent so much time trying to dispel the rumors, trying to get the truth out that I haven’t had a really opportunity to talk to you about how you conceive your music, how you conceive the dance. Where did the ‘Moonwalk’ come from?

Michael: Well, the ‘Moonwalk’ came from these beautiful children, the black kids who live in the ghettos, you know, the inner cities, who are brilliant, that just have that natural talent for dancing any of these new — the running man — any of these dances. They come up with these dances, all I did was enhance the dance.

Oprah: O.K. I want to see you dance.

Michael: Oh, God, no, no…

Oprah: I want to see you dance. I want to see you dance, live.

Michael: No, no. I can show you a step or two, but, I’m a little rusty right now.

Oprah: A little rusty?!

[Michael goes on stage and dances to ‘Dangerous’.]

Michael: That’s the ‘Moonwalk’ — wait, you need to catch it from the — sideways.

Oprah: You gotta turn sideways?

Michael: Are you from the front?

Oprah: Yeah, we got ya!

Michael: Catch it from the sideways.

Oprah: O.K. Just show me slow motion. Could you show me slow motion?

Michael: O.K., wait, it’s like, it’s pushing and then there’s like a popping type of thing.

[Michael stops dancing and comes down from stage.]

 Michael: I’m sorry.

Oprah: [applauding] Well, I saw it live, I saw it live, I saw it live. And so you took it from the kids who were doing it.

Michael: Yeah, because, um, I think they are the real dancers.

Oprah: Yeah! And when you are, for instance, when we were here before, when we were here before to shoot that commercial, you were…

Michael: You were supposed to do this with me! [laughing]

Oprah: I don’t know how to do this!

Michael: [laughing]

Oprah: You know I don’t know how to do this!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: You know what? I mean all the things that were printed in the tabloids, the only thing that’s ever been true was when they said I couldn’t dance. Now that’s the truth!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: When we were here the last time shooting the commercial, you were like in between shots running off and conceiving the dance, choreographing the dance, you were up all night dancing.

Michael: For the ‘Super Bowl’?

Oprah: Yes, yes.

Michael: Yes, well, I’m never satisfied. Even when I see something that I’ve done and people say oh it was so phenomenal — when I did ‘Motown 25’ and I did the ‘Moonwalk’ for the first time, I was backstage crying afterwards.

Oprah: Why?

Michael: Because I was unhappy.

Oprah: You cried after ‘Motown 25’?!

Michael: After ‘Motown 25’, yes. But, then as I was walking to the car there was this little boy, he was like 12, was a little Jewish kid, and he said, “Oooooh, you were amazing. Who taught you to ever dance like that?” And for the first time, I felt I did a good job, because I know children don’t lie and I just felt so good about it then.

Oprah: You wanted to, you felt so good, you probably wanted to say [imitating Michael] “Hee-hee”!

Michael: [laughs] Hee-hee!

Oprah: I want you to sing something acapella for me, if you can.

Michael: Oh, no! What could I sing?

Oprah: ‘Who Is It’, you know do that whole little beat thing, since we’re here in the theater.

Michael: Um, oh, boy, what could I sing? ‘Who Is It’?

Oprah: Where did that Hee-hee thing come from? Hee-hee.

Michael: Hee-hee! [starts the beat and makes instrument sounds to ‘Who Is It’] [sings] I gave my money, I gave my time, I gave her everything in life one heart could find. It doesn’t seem to matter and it doesn’t seem right, but the will has brought no fortune, still I cry alone at night. Don’t you judge of my composure cause I’m bothered every day, and she didn’t leave a letter, she just up and ran away…

Oprah: Aooww! Fabulous!

Michael: I mean, you wanted me to do it! I get embarrassed. I’m sorry. I get embarrassed.

Oprah: I like it very much. Thank you very much for that. We’re going to come right back with more of Michael Jackson live — That was great! [hugs Michael]

[Cut to clips for intermission]

Oprah: One of the reasons we wanted to look at that piece when we went to break there was because music videos used to be you, used to just be people singing their song until you came along and changed music videos. Did you know when you first conceived your first one that’s what you were doing?

Michael: Yeah. The idea was to make something that was a story so it had a beginning, a middle and an ending.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: So it felt like a mini movie, that’s what I wanted to do. And that is what we did with ‘Beat It’ and ‘Thriller’ and ‘Smooth Criminal’ and all those type of things.

Oprah: So when you start to look at a piece of work or look at a piece of music, are you already thinking about how you are going to…

Michael: Sometimes, yes, that is very true.

Oprah: Uh-huh. I wonder what it feels like, I will never know since I cannot sing one thing, but, what it feels like to be on stage with a sea of people, a sea of people. One of the things that has impressed me in putting the pieces together for you, is all around the world, the response to you is so incredible. I just wanted to, for the rest of you in the world who haven’t seen how people respond to Michael Jackson to take a look…

[Cut to concert clips and crowd scenes from around the world, with ‘Will You Be There’ playing as background music.]

Oprah: So, when you’re standing there and there’s a sea of people responding to you, screaming you name as they were, what does it feel like?

Michael: Love, you just feel lots of love and I feel blessed and honored to be able to be an instrument of nature that was chosen to give them that, what I give them. I’m very honored and happy about that.

Oprah: An ‘instrument of nature’ — that’s an interesting way to describe yourself.

Michael: Thank you, yes.

Oprah: Are you very spiritual?

Michael: In what sense?

Oprah: I mean, do you, do you meditate? Do you understand that there’s something bigger than yourself at work here?

Michael: I believe in God, absolutely… absolutely, very much.

Oprah: Uh-huh. And I believe that everybody comes to the world for a reason. I think, um, most of us spend our lives trying to figure out what the purpose of our being here is. What do you think your’s is?

Michael: My purpose?

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: Oh boy, I think, um, to give in the best way I can through song, and through dance and through music. I mean, I am committed to my art. I believe that all art has as it’s ultimate goal the union between the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine. I believe that to be the reason for the very existence of art.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And, um, I feel I was chosen as an instrument to just give music and love and harmony to the world. To children of all ages, and um, adults and teenagers.

Oprah: Do you think that by talking now, setting the record straight for yourself, that maybe people will be able to focus more attention on your music and not judge you for anything other than the kind of music that you play?

Michael: I would hope so. I would love that.

Oprah: Well, I hope that comes out of this, too. I’m also excited that the world is watching, and because the world is watching, we thought this was a good time to let the world see the world premiere of ‘Give In To Me’.

[Cut to world premiere showing of ‘Give In To Me’ video.]

Oprah: So, we want to know how it starts on a piece of pape — ‘quench my desire’ — and turns into that.

Michael: Well, ‘Give In To Me’, I wanted to write another song, you know, that was kinda exciting and fun and had a rock edge to it. You know, like when I did ‘Beat It’ and ‘Black or White’. And Slash, who’s a dear friend of mine, we love animals and things like that, he wanted to play guitar and I wanted him to play guitar. We got together and we went to Germany and we shot this thing in just like two hours. We had no time at all to shoot it. We wanted it to be exciting and fantastical and fans, you know, like it’s a rock concert and that’s how it ends up — that’s the result.

Oprah: You mentioned animals. I know everyone’s going to ask me when I leave here, where are all the animals? I said it in the opening, I expected chimps to be jumping all over the living room and I didn’t see any. Where’s Bubbles?

Michael: [laughs] Well, the animals are everywhere. They’re in their habitats. They’re all over the ranch. And they come out in the daytime and they play and jump around, they have their own playground and area.

Oprah: Why, why were you so fascinated by animals, do you think?

Michael: Because I find in animals the same thing I find so wonderful in children. That purity, that honesty, where they don’t judge you, they just want to be your friend. I think that is so sweet.

Oprah: I do, too. We’ll be right back with Michael Jackson, live.

Announcer: Michael Jackson talks to Oprah. Ninety prime-time minutes with the ‘King of Pop’.

Oprah: We’re live at Michael Jackson’s house, in his theater and we asked NBC for ninety minutes. I don’t think it was enough time.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: I think we’ve cleared up all the rumors though. There are no chimps running around the house…

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: No oxygen tank in the house. I don’t know, are you going to lay off the crotch a little bit?

Michael: [laughs] Ask the music.

Oprah: Ask the music will you lay off the crotch. Oh, we didn’t get about the inauguration. Did you tell President Clinton that you had to be the only person there singing?

Michael: That is horrible. That is the stupidest, craziest story that I have ever heard. I mean, why would I just want me and nobody else could be on the show, just me. That’s so stupid, to me. I mean, it’s crazy. That’s not even in my heart. I would never say anything like that. Again, somebody made it up and the whole world believed it. It is so false, it’s incredible.

Oprah: What do you want, want most… what do you want the world to know about you most? I asked Liz that of you, what do you want them to know?

Michael: Like to be remembered for?

Oprah: Not to be remembered for… what about for now? Forget remembered.

Michael: Oh, known for now. As to be an artist, a great artist. I… I love what I do and I would love people to love what I do and to be loved. I just simply want to be loved wherever I go. All over the world, because I love people of all races from my heart, with true affection.

Oprah: Hmm. You know, Gene Siskel who’s a movie critic asked me this question once. And I love the question, so I am going to ask you.

Michael: Yeah?

Oprah: You’re 34 years old. What do you know for sure?

Michael: Hmm. What do I know for sure?

Oprah: What do you know for sure?

Michael: Oh boy, I’m still learning. I mean, life is an education for me. I can’t say that I know anything for sure. I really believe that.

Oprah: I can’t thank you enough for letting us in and I wish you all the happiness in the world. I loved being here because it makes me feel like a child again and one of the things I promised myself was that when this interview was over — live around the world — I was going to go get on that ‘Ferris Wheel’!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: And that is exactly what I intend to do. I’m gonna take off my blue shoes and I’m gonna ride that ‘Ferris Wheel’!

Michael: [continues laughing]

Oprah: I’m gonna have a good time and have myself a little popcorn, maybe, and maybe when it’s all over, you’ll teach me how to do the ‘Moonwalk’ — when everybody’s not looking!

Michael: O.K.! O.K.! That sounds good.

Oprah: Yeah! This was fun!

Michael: Yeah! Lots of fun!

[They leave the theater together to go to the amusement park.]

Diane Sawyer: Make no mistake about it, for all that fantasy and flash Michael Jackson is serious business. Ask anyone in this town. Ask the people at Sony Music who say his next album and videos alone could bring in close to one billion dollars worldwide. So it’s not hard to understand why the shockwave of those allegations two years ago registered like the last earthquake out here. What everyone wants to know, is he really on his way back? This is the old MGM set at ‘Sony Pictures’ where all those dreams were put on film. Seemed like a good place to begin this hour. Because whatever you think about Michael Jackson, you cannot ignore what he achieved, a little boy with all those dreams in his voice.
It’s the once upon a time story that we all know by heart. Out of this tiny house in Gary, Indiana, where among the nine children of a crane worker at the steel yards, came the raw talent that rocked Motown.

This is the audition, which Michael Jackson charms, glides, and spins his family into stardom. But we’ve also heard the other side of this fairytale. The brothers claimed that their father drove them brutally, beat them. This is the man Michael said made him nauseous with fear.

Joe Jackson: I don’t know anything about him being sick but, regurgitating but if he, did ’gurgitate, he, he ’gurgitated all the way to the bank.

Diane Sawyer: But on stage the little boy felt invulnerable. Wielding the voice that would enchant for the next twenty-five years, even as the singer radically changed. We sat down a week and a half ago to talk only about music. We looked at the Ed Sullivan Show, 1970. He remembers exactly what he was thinking.

[Interview of Michael about his work]
Michael: That the whole world was like watching me. My father used to always say, don’t mess up, you know, and I felt I knew every part and if something went wrong, I felt I could cover it.

Diane Sawyer: But by adolescence a private price was being paid. He said it was agony. That people stared, clearly wishing that he was still that cute little boy. At the time, his mother worried that he was withdrawn.

Katherine Jackson: Michael is quiet now. When he was younger he wasn’t that quiet. And I don’t know I think the stage might have done that to him.

[Footage of an interview with Sylvia Chase, taped in the late 70’s]

Michael: Bein’ around, you know, everyday people and stuff, I feel strange, I do.

Sylvia Chase: Shy?

Michael: Yeah.

Diane Sawyer: 1979, 20-20. He told Sylvia Chase people won’t let him be just normal.

Michael: They won’t talk to me like their, well, their next door neighbor.

Diane Sawyer: But somehow Jackson used isolation to sharpen his sense of what was exotic and new. By 1983, the 25th anniversary of Motown, another Michael Jackson emerged. His own creation. From the music, to the muscle, to the magic. It was a triumph. But, he still sees only what he missed.

[Interview of Michael about his work]
Michael: I wanted to do the five spins and go on the toes and freeze there, and just hold it, and stay there, you know. And I didn’t, but they didn’t know.

Diane Sawyer: It’s the doubles bargain. A perfectionist trying to give the audience more. A chameleon, whose changes are more and more extreme, making you wonder if it’s all still part of his plan or like his prison. Because even today Jackson obsesses over every word, every note, every sound. Listen. What you’re hearing is not an electric drum machine; it’s a hard-wired, 48 track, digitally mastered human.

[Interview of Michael about his work]
Michael: [mimicking various instruments with his voice box] … You know what I mean. I’ll take that and use that as the main foundation for the track, and build, all the sounds around that. You know what I’m saying?

Diane Sawyer: So, whatever the future, the music will always be inside the man, who says soon he’ll be back, where he’s most at home.

Diane Sawyer: Are you really anxious to get back onstage?

Michael: Hmmm, I miss the fans. That’s my chance to get to really, you know, see them and, feel their presence.

When we do a concert, and there’s like a hundred thousand people out there, and you see a sea of people singing there, all in unison, holding up candles, and, you go, wow! You know it’s, it really makes your heart happy and that’s what really makes me feel like everything’s O.K..

[…]

Diane Sawyer: And with me, of course, Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley. Welcome to Prime Time.

Michael: Thank you.

Diane Sawyer: Glad you’re here. It occurs to me, looking at the two of you, I have got to start, by asking, how this marriage took place, how it began. Let me guess that it was not over miniature golf and a hot dog, or something. When did it start? When was the dating?

Michael: Well, we first met, she was seven years old and I was seventeen. This was in Las Vegas. She used to come and see my show all the time. We had the only family show on the strip, the Jackson 5. And, she used to come, as a little girl, and sit right up front. She came quite often. She came with a lot of bodyguards. And…

Diane Sawyer: Had you stayed in touch with her?

Michael: Sure, sure. And then she’d come backstage, then I’d, you know, talk and say hi and then she’d come again. And I thought she was sweet, and loving, and I hoped, I always hoped I’d see her again.

Diane Sawyer: And who first talked about marriage?

Lisa Marie: We didn’t stay in touch… after that.

Michael: We didn’t stay in touch after that, no.

Lisa Marie: He, he… go ahead, you wanted to say it. Go ahead.

Michael: No, you can say it. You can, you have a good memory.

Lisa Marie: Well, you said you were going to say it.

Diane Sawyer: Our first argument here, um, this hour. Who, who proposed? I mean, how did marriage actually get discussed?

Michael: Well, well, at first this is what happened. When she was 18, I used to tell my lawyer, John Branca. “Do you know Lisa Marie Presley?” He’d go, “Well, I represent her mother.” I’d go, “Well, can you get in touch with her, ’cause, I think she’s really cute.” And he’d laugh everytime. He goes, “I’ll try my best”, that’s what he’d say. Then he’d come back and I said “Well did you find out?” He said, “No, there’s nothing.” So I would worry him about this all the time. The next thing I noticed, there was a picture on a magazine cover where she’s married, which really tore me to pieces, because I felt that was supposed to be me, I really did.

Diane Sawyer: And what, what was the countdown to your marriage? Tell me, who said the word marriage first?

Michael: I did.

Lisa Marie: He did.

Diane Sawyer: When? Where?

Michael: When, where?

Lisa Marie: On the telephone.

Michael: Oh yeah, oh yeah on the telephone.

Lisa Marie: He first asked me, we were dating now for four months… right? Four months?

Michael: I don’t remember.

Lisa Marie: Anyway, we were spending a lot of time together. I don’t know how it didn’t manage to get in the press, because we weren’t hiding it. I was in Las Vegas, we were in…

Michael and Lisa: We were everywhere together.

Lisa Marie: Everywhere.

Michael: Went to bookstores,…

Lisa Marie: … to bookstores. We were not hiding it.

Diane Sawyer: And you said yes right away?

Lisa Marie: I was separated for four months now, and he said: “What would you do if I asked you, to marry me?” And I said, “I would.”

Michael: A big ‘I would’, you were really enthusiastic! [giggling] 

Diane Sawyer: I have to ask you this, because I can only imagine there are a number of lawyers involved in a pre-nuptual agreement, between these two fortunes. Is there one? A careful one?

Michael: Well, we’ve worked out things and we’ve signed certain things but, of course… that’s very confidential.

Lisa Marie: We agreed, we made agreements prior, yes.

Diane Sawyer: As you know, the reaction to this marriage, and I know you feel strongly about it, but the reaction to this marriage has been across the spectrum, everything from astonishment, to delight, to… suspicion. That it was somehow… too convenient. Lisa, did you ask Michael about the charges? Did the two of you think about the impact, of the marriage, on the allegations?

Lisa Marie: Absolutely not. He called… I was in touch with him through the whole process of this, charges going on. I was talking to him when he disappeared. I was actually supposed to go to Santa Juan, Puerto Rico, when he left and disappeared, and I got a call that he wasn’t going to be there, and I was actually part of the whole thing with him, by talking to him on the phone. So…

Diane Sawyer: Did you say to him: “Are they true?”

Lisa Marie: No, I didn’t. No… I actually did not.

Diane Sawyer: I want to take a minute here, and I’m gonna come back to the marriage…

Lisa Marie: Could I just… sorry. He, he, went, on and on and on about it, so I didn’t really have to say, “Are the allegations true?” He was gggrrr [imitating Michael’s outrage] on the phone, you know, and…

Diane Sawyer: Over and over.

Lisa Marie: Just constant… yeah.

Diane Sawyer: Well, [turning to Michael] because I know that you’ve wanted to express similar sentiments for a long time, I want to ask a few things about the charges. But first I want to establish for the viewers here, there are no ground rules. You have said to me you are not afraid of any questions. So, I wanted that understood by everybody before we proceed. I think I want to begin by making sure that the terms are clear. You have said you would never harm a child. I want to be as specific as I can. Did you ever, as this young boy said you did, did you ever sexually engage, fondle, have sexual contact with this child, or any other child?

Michael: Never, ever. I could never harm a child, or anyone. It’s not in my heart, it’s not who I am. And it’s not what I’m… I’m not even interested in that.

Diane Sawyer: And what do you think should be done to someone who does that?

Michael: To someone who does that? What I think should be done? Gee… I think they need help… in some kind of way… you know.

Diane Sawyer: How about the police photographs, though? How was there enough information from this boy about those kinds of things?

Michael: The police photographs?

Diane Sawyer: The police photographs.

Michael: That they took of me?

Diane Sawyer: Yeah.

Michael: There was nothing that matched me to those charges, there was nothing!

Lisa Marie: There was nothing they could connect to him.

Michael: That’s why I’m sitting here talking to you today. There was not one iota of information that was found, that could connect me…

Diane Sawyer: So when we’ve heard the charges…

Michael: There was nothing…

Diane Sawyer: … markings of some kind?

Michael: No markings.

Diane Sawyer: No markings?

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the…

Michael: Why am I still here then?

Lisa Marie: You’re not going to ask me about them, are you? [laughing] Sorry. About the markings?

Diane Sawyer: You volunteered.

Lisa Marie: No, I’m just… the point is, is that when that finally got concluded that there was no match-up, then, it was printed this big [showing a tiny area], as opposed to how big it was, what the match-up was supposed to be.

Michael: Because it isn’t so!

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the case then?

Michael: The whole thing is a lie.

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the case? And, it looks to everyone as if you paid a huge amount of money…

Michael: That’s… that’s, most of that’s folklore. I talked to my lawyers, and I said, “Can you guarantee me, that justice will prevail?” And they said: “Michael, we cannot guarantee you that a judge, or a jury will do anything.” And with that I was like catatonic, I was outraged! …

Diane Sawyer: How much money…

Michael: … Totally outraged. So, I said… I have got to do something to get out from under this nightmare. All these lies and all these people coming forth to get paid and all these tabloid shows, just lies, lies, lies, lies. So what I did, we got together again with my advisors and they advised me. It was a hands down, unanimous decision — resolve the case. This could be something that could go on for seven years! …

Diane Sawyer: How much money was…

Michael: We said, let’s get it behind us.

Diane Sawyer: Can you say how much?

Michael: It’s not what the tabloids have printed. It’s not all this crazy outlandish money, no, it’s not at all. I mean, the terms of the agreement are very confidential.

Diane Sawyer: I want to ask…

Lisa Marie: He’s been barred to discuss it. The, the…

Diane Sawyer: The specific terms…

Lisa Marie: The specific terms.

Diane Sawyer: … of the agreement.

Lisa Marie: … the specific amounts.

Michael: The idea, it just isn’t fair… what they put me through. ’Cause there wasn’t one piece of information that says I did that. And anyway, they turned my room upside-down, went through all my books, all my videotapes, all my private things, and they found nothing, nothing, nothing that could say Michael Jackson did this. Nothing! …

Diane Sawyer: But let me ask you a couple of questions…

Michael: … to this day, nothing. Still, nothing…

Diane Sawyer: Let me ask you…

Michael: … nothing, nothing, nothing…

Diane Sawyer: Nothing. We got nothing. As you may or may not know, we have called everyone we could call, we have checked everything we can check, we have gone and tried to see if what we heard before is in fact the case… I want to ask you about two things. These reports that we read over and over again, that in your room they found photographs of young boys…

Michael: Not of young boys, of children, all kinds of girls and… everything.

Diane Sawyer: And that they found photographs… books, of young boys who were undressed.

Michael: Noooo.

Diane Sawyer: It didn’t happen?

Michael: No. Not that I know of, unless people sent me things that I haven’t opened. People send, people know my love for children, so they send me books from all over the world. From South America, from Germany, from Italy, from Sweden, I…

Diane Sawyer: So people say, that they found those things, that there’s an indication, let them come forward. Let them produce them, right?

Michael: Yeah, because I get all… I get all kinds… you wouldn’t believe the amounts of mail that I get. If you say to somebody, you know, if I let the fans know that I love Charlie Chaplin, I’ll be swarmed in Charlie Chaplin paraphanalia.

Diane Sawyer: What about…

Michael: If I say I love children, which I do, they swarm me with everything pertaining to kids.

Diane Sawyer: Any other settlements… in process now or previously with children making these kinds of claims. We have heard… that there is one, not, not a case that the prosecutors would bring in court.

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: But, but once again, you’re talking about shelling out…

Michael: No. That’s not true. No. It’s not true. I think, I’ve heard everything is fine, and there are no others.

Diane Sawyer: I guess, let me ask this, and I’m trying to think how to phrase it, though. I can hear out in the country people saying — and you’ve been cleared of all the charges, I want to make that clear. People saying, look here is a man who is surrounded by… things that children love. Here is a man who spends an inordinate amount of time, with these young boys.

Michael: That’s right.

Diane Sawyer: What is a thirty-six year old man doing, sleeping… with a twelve year old boy? Or a series of them?

Michael: Right. O.K., when you say boys, it’s not just boys, and I’ve never invited just boys to come in my room. Come on, that’s just ridiculous. And that’s a ridiculous question. But since people want to hear it… you know, the answer, I’ll be happy to answer it. I have never invited anyone into my bed, ever. Children love me, I love them. They follow me, they want to be with me. But… anybody can come in my bed, a child can come in my bed if they want.

Lisa Marie: I can say… I can, I can say… sorry. I’ve seen this, I’ve seen it a lot. I’ve seen kids. I’ve seen him with children in the last year. I’ve seen it enough to where I can see how that can happen. It’s… you know… I understand…

Diane Sawyer: Isn’t part of being an adult… and you have a two year old child… two year old boy.

Michael to Lisa Marie: Didn’t you want to finish?

Lisa Marie: Yeah. Let me just, let me just… sorry.

Diane Sawyer: O.K..

Lisa Marie: I, I just wanted to say I’ve seen these children. They don’t let him go to the bathroom… without… running in there with him. And they won’t let him out of their sight. So when he jumps in the bed, I’m even out. You know, they, they jump in the bed with him.

Diane Sawyer: But isn’t part of being an adult… and loving children, keeping children from ambiguous… situations? And again we’re talking about over an intense period of time here. Would you, let your son when he grows up, and is twelve years old, do that?

Lisa Marie: You know what, if I didn’t know Michael… no way. But I happen to know who he is, and what he is. And that makes it … you know. I know that he’s not, you know… I know that he’s not like that, and I know he has a thing for children, and I… go ahead, sorry.

Diane Sawyer: I just want to… is it over? Are you gonna make sure it doesn’t happen again? I think, this is really the key thing people want to know.

Michael: Is what over?

Diane Sawyer: That there are not going to be more of these sleep-overs, in which people have to wonder.

Michael: Nobody wonders when kids sleep over at my house. Nobody wonders.

Diane Sawyer: But are they over? Are you… are you gonna watch out for it now?

Michael: Watch out for what?

Diane Sawyer: Just for the sake of the children and for everything you’ve been through.

Michael: No! ’Cause, it’s all… it’s all moral and it’s all pure. I don’t even think that way, it’s not what’s in my heart…

Diane Sawyer: So you’ll… you’ll do it again?

Michael: I would never ever… Do what again?

Diane Sawyer: I mean, you’ll have a child sleeping over.

Michael: Of course! If they want.

Lisa Marie: He has…

Michael: It’s on the level of purity and love, and just innocence. Complete innocence. If you’re talking about sex then that’s a nut. That’s not me! Go to the guy down the street ’cause it’s not Michael Jackson. It’s not what I’m interested in.

Diane Sawyer: O.K., we’re gonna take a break now. When we come back, Elizabeth Taylor… talked to us a little bit about what she saw when she went over and talked to you, in the middle of this and helped you get treatment for addiction to painkillers.

Michael: Oh, wow… Elizabeth is on the show!

Diane Sawyer: When we come back.

[Commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: As we said, Elizabeth Taylor is going to talk a little bit about when she came to see you in the middle of this, what she called agony. And one of the things she was so…, I think she was so angry about with us, was that she said people always talk about one side of a person, they never give them credit for their accomplishments…

Michael: That’s right.

Diane Sawyer: … particularly, what they give to children and the money you give to children, that’s how it starts.

[Showing taped interview with Elizabeth Taylor]

Elizabeth: When he’s on tour… he goes to hospitals, without the press following him. Without anyone knowing. He’ll get up in a disguise and do it. Take his disguise off when he’s there, and the kids know, “Wow, it’s Michael Jackson!”.

Diane Sawyer: Was there no point at which you said to yourself… reading everything everybody had been reading… maybe this is true, maybe I completely didn’t understand who he was.

Elizabeth: No way. Absolutely not.

Diane Sawyer: Never?

Elizabeth: Never. I know Michael’s heart. I know his mind and his soul. I’m not that insensitive. Especially to him, or people I love.

Diane Sawyer: How did you decide to go to Singapore?

Elizabeth: He was my friend… he was alone. He was totally alone. And he just… he needed help. Nothing in the world could have hurt him more. If it had been calculated, if they’d planned an assassination, they couldn’t have done it any better. It almost… it almost broke his heart.

Diane Sawyer (voice-over): She said she recognised a friend turning to painkillers for escape.

Elizabeth: He wasn’t aware of what was happening, he was dulling his pain. But, it really frightened me because I have been there. And I know how easy it is to get there when you’re in mental or physical pain.

Diane Sawyer: And he knew right away that he had to deal with it, to…

Elizabeth: Not right away, not right away… but he knew.

[Back to interview with Michael and Lisa Marie]

Diane Sawyer: There were some reports during this period, Michael, that it was such agony for you that you were actually suicidal. Is that true?

Michael: I was never suicidal. I love life too much to ever be suicidal. I’m resiliant. I have rhinocerous skin. Never, ever suicidal.

Diane Sawyer: Did it leave you, though…

Michael: Heartbroken [touching his heart], but not suicidal.

Diane Sawyer: … did it leave you changed, completely? I… I’ve talked to you a little bit about what you’re thinking about where you want to live… in the world. Did it change your view about living here? Are you thinking about living someplace else?

Michael: I don’t care to stay in America anymore, no. I… I don’t care. I will always have Neverland, you know. ’Cause I… I have Neverland. I don’t like… I’m very sensitive to the smog. You know, so I can’t have the smog. And ah, I would like to go abroad. Matter of fact, I am.

Diane Sawyer: You are?

Michael: Yes.

Diane Sawyer: Where?

Michael: Ooh, I haven’t decided the exact place yet. Probably South Africa, maybe.

Diane Sawyer: To live permanently?

Michael: Maybe, aah, Switzerland.

Diane Sawyer: Lisa, are you in favour of it?

Lisa Marie: Can we just… change… wait, just go into the fact that we don’t live in separate houses for… to start this with.

Michael: Yeah, we don’t live in separate… this is just a dream.

Lisa Marie: … it’s ridiculous. Wherever the camera is. Anyway, um… sorry, heh.

Michael: No. Jump in any time.

Lisa Marie: What? How do I feel about the overseas thing? I think that it’s a nice place to visit, yes. I would like to have a… a house over there.

Diane Sawyer: Hmmm.

Lisa Marie: We would be completely and utterly harrassed beyond belief… but…

Michael: [laughing]

Diane Sawyer: Before we move away from the last two years, we told you, because we want to, that we are going to show, what is really your… comment of those two years. And ah… is a video you have done with your sister Janet, called ‘Scream’. And in it you have some words, for middle-aged people who can’t follow these words. Ahh, the words you’ll hear will be about ‘confusion’, ‘bashing’, ‘victimising’, “stop pressuring me”, he says, “makes me want to scream.” The last two years.

[‘Scream’ video is shown]

Diane Sawyer: We have some… wedding video, of the two of you. And I’m gonna let you tell us a little bit about what we’re seeing here… if our director Roger Goodman wants to roll it in, we will take you there, a years ago. Right?

Lisa Marie: Yes.

Diane Sawyer: Just about exactly.

[Wedding video is shown]

Lisa Marie: I look like an idiot, I can tell you that.

Michael: You don’t look like an idiot, you look more like a, ah… no!

Lisa Marie: [laughing] Do you want me to tell you…

Diane Sawyer: Yes.

Lisa Marie: … while we’re watching it?

Diane Sawyer: Tell us.

Lisa Marie: While we’re watching.

Diane Sawyer: Tell us. We’re watching here live.

Michael to Lisa Marie: I do.

Lisa Marie to Michael: What?

Michael to Lisa Marie: I do.

Lisa Marie to Michael: Hah.

Lisa Marie: In the middle he [judge] asks for his [Michael’s] autograph.

Michael: [Comments to Lisa Marie about his stretching in the video, but is inaudible.]

Lisa Marie: Right, now we’re out of time.

Michael to Lisa Marie: How do I look?

Lisa Marie to Michael: Great.

Michael to Lisa Marie: You sure?

Lisa Marie to Michael: Yeah.Diane Sawyer: So… I know, that you, Lisa Marie, have wanted to talk about this. There are a lot of doubters about this marriage. I’ve heard that it’s a Scientology plan, you are a member of the ‘Church of Scientology’, which… is said to influence its members greatly, and that the husband you divorced was a Scientologist, and he’s still very much in your life and this is all part of a calculation to get… Michael, and his money into the church.

Michael: Oooh, gee…

Lisa Marie: It’s crap. I’m sorry… it, it’s like ridiculous! It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. I’m not… um. First of all, you can’t get influenced by anything… like that… and, and under a term of a marriage… I’m not gonna marry somebody for any reason other than the fact that I’ve fallen in love with them, period. Period. And they can eat it, if they wanna think any differently…

Michael: [laughing out loud!]

Diane Sawyer: To put it succinctly.

Lisa Marie: Yeah.

Diane Sawyer: What is it you love the most about him?

Lisa Marie: Ooh, what do I love the most about him? Everything. He’s amazing. I really admire him. I respect him. I admire him. I’m in love with him. And no, we don’t sleep in separate bedrooms, thank you very much. And um… I love everything about him.

Diane Sawyer: To finish up on that, though… are you a Scientologist? Are…

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: Plan to become one?

Michael: I believe in spirituality and I believe in a higher source, that is God. But I’m not a Scientologist. I read everything, I like to read, I love to study.

Diane Sawyer: You said you don’t sleep in separate bedrooms, and I’m going to confess, O.K.… this is live TV and I’m copping out right here, because I didn’t spend my life as a serious journalist to ask these kinds of questions. But I’m not oblivious to the fact that your fans… had one question they most wanted to ask of you.

Lisa Marie: Do we have sex?

Diane Sawyer: We have…

Michael: He, he, he… sh… she didn’t ask!! [holds his hand over Lisa’s mouth]

Lisa Marie: Ha, ha, ha.

Michael: She didn’t ask.

Lisa Marie: O.K., I won’t ask.

Diane Sawyer: O.K..

Michael: We don’t know what it was gonna be.

Lisa Marie: Is that what you were gonna ask?

Diane Sawyer: Let’s play just a minute or two.

Lisa Marie: Sorry.

Diane Sawyer: Let’s play one or two.

[Videotaped interterviews with people on the street]

1st person: We wanna know, if you’ve done ‘the thing’?

2nd person: Michael, I know this is an intimate question, but are you having sex, together, with Lisa Marie?

3rd person: Do you guys really love each other or are you just doing this to satisfy the media?

4th person: Are you guys intimate?

[End of videotaped interviews]

Diane Sawyer: Again…

Michael: I can’t believe it.

Lisa Marie: Wow!

Diane Sawyer: But this is about… the scepticism.

Lisa Marie: Yes. Yes! Yes.

Diane Sawyer: And… we have read in the papers, that you, are… expecting a child.

Lisa Marie: We won’t be expecting a child, no. When… I’m not gonna…

Michael: We’re not gonna say when, or…

Lisa Marie: It’s personal.

Michael: It’s in the hands of the heavens.

Diane Sawyer: But not yet?

Lisa Marie: Did we marry out of convenience? That’s really interesting, that’s really interesting to me.

Michael: It’s ridiculous.

Diane Sawyer: Why?

Lisa Marie: Well, why wouldn’t we have a lot in common? That’s the question. Why? Why not?

Michael: Like we’re faking this?

Lisa Marie: Like… no.

Michael: The most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

Lisa Marie: But you can’t live with somebody day to day. We’re together all the time, first of all. Second thing, how can you fake that 24 hours a day with somebody? Sleeping with somebody, waking up with somebody, having the…

Michael: It’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

Lisa Marie: … He’s running around the house. I’m running around the house. You were in our house. We have a normal house, we have a nanny, we have a maid. And… we walk around, and he’s either in the studio or I’m in the kitchen. We’re running around like normal — I know its hard to believe — people.

Diane Sawyer: You go shopping together… you…

Lisa Marie: We go shopping. We go out to dinner. We argue… sometimes.

Michael: About what, may I say? [to Lisa Marie]

Lisa Marie: [laughs, looks at Michael]

Diane Sawyer: We also heard a report that maybe you were planning to adopt the children.

Michael: Oh, I would love to adopt children. I think that’s something I’ve always wanted to do. But children of all races: Arab children, Jewish children, black children, all races.

Diane Sawyer: But, Lisa’s children?

Michael: I love Lisa’s children. It’s been a mission…

Diane Sawyer: But are you going to adopt…

Michael: Pardon?

Diane Sawyer: To adopt them, though?

Michael: Oh, I love her children, they’re sweet.

Diane Sawyer: But to adopt? No?

Michael: Of course.

Lisa Marie: But if they have a biological father, and he’s the… he’s there…

Michael: I think they love me very much. I love them.

Lisa Marie: They do.

Michael: We have a lot of fun.

Lisa Marie: But I’ve never heard of that before, a person, someone adopting someone’s children, while they’re in a relationship with that person.

Diane Sawyer: We’re going to take a break for a minute, and come back with more questions.

[Commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: We’re going to show you a film now, created by Michael Jackson. And, it is causing a furor… in some movie theaters around this country. They say among other things that, it is clearly modeled, after ‘Triumph of The Will’. They mean, Riefenstahl. A Nazi film with a Nazi meaning to it.

Michael: It’s not true. None of that’s true. None of those things are true.

Diane Sawyer: Did you watch that film before you did it?

Diane Sawyer: I watch everything, I love movies, I love documentaries. It had nothing to do with that at all.

Diane Sawyer: But there are people who keep saying, this is… they look at it and say this is…

Michael: Absolutely not.

Diane Sawyer: You were…

Michael: It has nothing to do with politics, or communism, or fascism at all…

Diane Sawyer: Well, the critics have said that, it’s the most… body vein, glorious, self-deification a pop singer ever undertook with a straight face.

Michael: Good! That’s what I wanted.

Diane Sawyer: For the controversy?

Michael: Yeah! They fell into my trap.

Diane Sawyer: But the people who say that…

Michael: I wanted everybody’s attention.

Diane Sawyer: But for the people who say those symbols, matter…

Michael: No. The symbols… no…

Diane Sawyer: The suffering…

Michael: No. The symbol has nothing to do with that. It’s not political. It’s not Fascist. It’s not dogma. It’s not… you know, ideology and all of this stuff. It’s pure, simple love. You don’t see any tanks, you don’t see any cannons. It’s about love. It’s people coming together…

Diane Sawyer: About love. We’re gonna let everybody watch a bit of it.

Michael: Yeah, but it’s art. It is art!

Diane Sawyer: O.K..

Michael: We had a director, we get him to create art.

Diane Sawyer: The short answer, coming up… here it comes.

[Part of the ‘HIStory’-trailer is shown]

Diane Sawyer: Well, as we said, we’re gonna clearly agree to disagree maybe, on what this means to… some people watching it. There’s been another issue raised. In a song you say, “Jew me, sue me”. And some people are saying that that is anti-Semitic.

Michael: It’s not anti-Semitic. Because, I’m not a racist person. I could never be a racist. I love all races of people — from Arabs, to Jewish people, like I said before, to blacks. But when I say, “Jew me, sue me, everybody do me, kick me, kike me, don’t you black or white me,” [‘They Don’t Care About Us’] I’m talking about myself as the victim, you know. My accountants and lawyers are Jewish. My three best friends are Jewish — David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Stephen Spielberg, Mike Milkin. These are friends of mine. They’re all Jewish. So how does that make sense? I was raised in a Jewish community.

Diane Sawyer: I wanna ask you both about something ’cause it was the second most asked question by people on the street. And I know… I know it’s a sensitive issue for you, and you talked with Oprah about it. But, somehow, people still… are not, they don’t feel they’ve heard everything about the whiteness of your skin, and that it’s not somehow a choice on your part, along with the make-up… to be. Is it to be… neither black, nor white… neither… to look completely male, to be in the androgynous zone? I… I think they wanna know… it is a decision, on your part in some way, the way you look. Where does it come from?

Michael: I think it creates itself… it’s nature.

Lisa Marie: He… he’s an artist. He has every right…

Michael: I’m an artist, I’m a performer.

Lisa Marie: And he is constantly re-modifying something or changing it or reconstructing it or… you know, working on some imperfection that he thinks needs to be worked on. If he sees something he doesn’t like, he changes it! Period. He re-sculpted himself, he’s an artist.

Michael: And I wanna put a red dot right there one day [pointing to his forehead], And two eyes right here [pointing to his cheeks].

Diane Sawyer: But… but, do you wish you were… the colour you were, again?

Michael: Do I wish I was the colour?

Diane Sawyer: Black colour.

Michael: You have to ask nature that. I loved… I love black, I love black.

Diane Sawyer: But do you wish you were that way?

Michael: I envy her [pointing to Lisa Marie], ’cause she can tan and I can’t.

Diane Sawyer: One more question I wanna make sure I ask. Are you going to sing together?

Lisa Marie: No.

Diane Sawyer: The two of you.

Michael singing to Lisa Marie: I would love to sing with you, would you like to sing with me?

Lisa Marie shaking her head: Mm, mmm.

Diane Sawyer: You don’t sing?

Lisa Marie: I don’t sing. I did sing, if I wanted it. I mean, I’m not gonna marry someone for a recording career, just want to clear that up as well. Um.

[Michael makes Rabbit’s ears behind Lisa Marie’s head]

Michael: What? Heh heh.

[Lisa Marie pinches him]

Michael: Stop! [giggling]

Lisa Marie: Um, grrr.

Diane Sawyer: I’m gonna let the two of you dupe this out over here. We’ll take a break, and we’ll come back.

[Commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: And as our hour ends, I’d like to just ask each of you for a one sentence answer. Time’s so short. Where do you want to be in five years?

Michael: Oh boy, I love what I’m doing now… and to do everything I can to help the children… and hello Bobby Sherrit.

Lisa Marie: Ah, I just want people to know what they’re dealing with, before and… understand, that I’m not the, that we are not… the jokes, the degrading comments, all that kind of stuff, it’s really irritating. So I didn’t get to get it in there, I hope this is over alreay, but…

Michael: We want to choke them!

Diane Sawyer: Alright, so in five years you want to…

Lisa Marie: Yeah, we want to choke them.

Michael: Don’t believe the garbage, all the tabloid junk. Don’t read it, don’t listen to it. It’s junk, it’s stupid, enough of it.

Diane Sawyer: And tonight is over.

Michael: Yes! [raises his fist in victory]